Seems like everywhere I go in the deaf world, I hear whining and complaining. "No closed captions!" "No interpreter"! Interpreter Lousy", "Mainstreaming stinks, Residential Schools smell bad", Gallaudet Administration Out of Line, and so on it goes (forever it feels like! ) ....Sigh....
The problem is these days that people think they have all these rights. We are NOT "entitled". The big clue is to be humble, expect nothing. Then you will be pleasantly surprised if you get thrown a few tidbits.
Yeah, I am of a different generation, a very much older generation, but WE did not "expect" anything. We had no interpreters, no closed captions, no tty machines, no Relay Service. 'No ADA Law. We had our babies in the hospital with (luckily) a close relative along to help us through. God help us, if we needed an operation, we went through it cold turkey and expected the best. 'Even if we understood little. If we needed a lawyer, we used pen and paper or a close relative or perhaps one of our children to interpret. A simple phone call? Call in the oldest child. A holiday with an entirely hearing family? Endure it!
So, what is wrong with The Deaf nowdays? You get SOME you want MORE.
Terrorists? Deaf terrorists? I call them whiners!
Lantana
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Well, I'm not one of the young'uns, either, but I think this is a little harsh. Should things stay the way they were 40-50-more years ago? I don't think so.
ReplyDeleteTo be fully participant and a member of this society, laws like the ADA *must* be enforced, interpreters *must* be of solid, ethical reliability. There *must* be safe and reasonable hospital procedures in place. Hearing people get all that without even trying, and we should absolutely have access to the same.
I'm afraid, though, that holidays with hearing families are here to stay ;-)
But honestly, there would be no progress without protest.
Hey, us women didn't have the vote 87 years ago! I'm very grateful to those whiners for their hard work ;-)
Just another cranky'un over here with another perspective --BEG
Negative energy focus on negative thoughts. Positive energy produce creative and positive thoughts.
ReplyDeleteI always believe in that and find it true! Too much negativity in the world, don't need more from the Deaf Community! If you complain, be constructive in solutions, find ways. People will be more willing to work with you if you come up with suggestions along with a positive attitude. Cheers!
Lantana,
ReplyDeleteYou're right, the young generation has it better than your generation.
As "BEG" above pointed out, it takes whiners and social rebels to bring some change. Without those events, there would be no progress.
The way you think is typical of your generation. With all due respect, that's "Uncle Tom" thinking. You're used to being oppressed. You're used to accepting discrimination. You're used to audism. You tolerate it and say "let live and let live"
But the fact here is, we are slaves to the hearing society. They control us through finances, they control us through education, they control us through every means possible.
And you are saying we should sit by and do nothing and suck it up?
Is that what Noah said when he led the Jews out? Is that what Susan B. Anthony said to women? Is that what Martin Luther King Jr. Said to African Americans? Is that what Geronimo said to the Native Americans? Is that what Harriet Tubman said to the slaves?
With all due respect, you sound like a caged slave to me, and that is depressing. I hope you can realize that it is not too late to have 100% equality, 100% freedom, and 100% respect.
Sincerely,
Erick Ketcham
Lantana,
ReplyDeleteP.S.,
I find it funny that you are living in Hawaii, husband drives a Corvette, you've got a large garden, and you work in a MAINSTREAMED school...
You're very biased. You want to sit in your commanding chair and whine that we are enlightened and you aren't?
Sorry, but I don't have respect for Deaf people like you. Deaf people like you SLOW DOWN progress. Deaf people like you SCREW IT UP for the rest of us.
You're only going to be alive for 15-20 more years at the most. You're being selfish. How about leaving it up to the young people and let them worry about THEIR future as well as their children's future?
Erick
Er. Oregon. Same difference.
ReplyDeleteLook at yourself! Right now You're whining about us for expecting the society to do right thing for deaf community. You have a negative view on deaf community and yourself as a person. You complained about some deaf people shock that your husband couldn't sign. It's normal for them to surprise that your husband doesn't know sign language. You think you are older and know it all. You always say that so often in the comments that you are older and you know more stuff than us. Excuse me, some old people are narrow mind like you don't know what they talked about and young people know what they talk about. You really do think you are above us because of your age. HA HA! You are just an old lady that has a very limited view about this world and look down on us as young people. Without whiners, this world wouldn't be in better place. GROW UP even you are very very old lady and stop to try and to degrade us for fighting for our rights and even your right as elder. You insulted every fighter for the best for their community even women, old people, deaf people, poverty, black people, and many more. I challenge you to tell Black community to cut their whining. You think it's easy for you to pick on us as deaf people. BEG, You got it right.
ReplyDeleteI'm proud of deaf people for fighting our rights for deaf community. You are the person with a crab theory that doesn't have any respect for young people or any fighter. I'm so glad that my grandparents are not like you. They always had supported my Deaf parents and me as fighter for our Deaf rights.
ANON
Whoa! I think Lantana is being joke about this.. Calling them whiners. Haha, I think it is funny honey. Yes, keep doing positive things to succeed to bring whatever.. and joke along! HaHa!
ReplyDeleteGarrett Bose
I think people here are taking it the wrong way.
ReplyDeleteWhat Lantana's saying is like the expression...
Give the mouse a cookie, it'll want a glass of milk. In today's America, people are like that now. They get a cookie, they ask for a glass of milk to go with it. If one thing is wrong, they go overboard and act like it's the end of the world and make all sort of ridiculous demands.
It's not about the rights... it's the attitude. Too many people today act like they are entitled to whatever they desire for. She isn't talking about the rights, she is talking about the attitude which is common in my generation. I can vouch for this because I've seen it happen quite often and I find it to be quite embarrassing.
Here's an example...
A deaf person sign into a hotel, find that the TV lack a captioning decoder.
How do you resolve this situation?
A) March down to the lobby desk and make demands?
B) Walk to the lobby desk and request a TV with a captioning decoder?
If you picked B, good. If they refuse to accommodate you, simply remind them of the ADA and if they still refuse. Then just tell them that they will hear from your lawyer and sign out.
There's no point in extending a demand when it's simply being refused. This is when you are entitled to making a legal action against a business owner for failing to accommodate you as required by the ADA.
If you start with a rude tone, all you're going to do is provoke them and may just lead to a worse situation.
It's all about doing it with class. I don't run around making demands. You don't get respect that way. They will look at you as a parasite. There's no class in it. I always do it by writing letters and if no results come out of it. Or by talking to the managers and people involved. If there are still no results, then that's when you bring it to public attention to put the pressure onto them.
Lantana here has been through much more than all of you can possibly imagine. She has shared so many stories with me and I've came to understand how different it was back then. Believe me, she has been to a lot of hotels and has all sort of horror stories to share, some turned out good, some didn't and yes, results came out of some of these experiences of hers.
Mannerisms, it's a dying art. Haven't you ever noticed that people tend to ignore you if you start yelling at them? People don't listen when you are being hostile. Next thing you know, they will be criticizing your tone, your poor choice of words, your demands being outrageous and more.
It's all about working together.
BANJO: WHOA! We are not that stupid about how to request if there is lack of captioning. I think you meant your people in your circle do that but please don't generalize us. Lantana had been on the earth for a long time and had done nothing for deaf community. I know she works with deaf children. I bet she hates deaf children who challenge her authority. She would call them whiners. Please remember that some people who live a longer on this earth doesn't mean they know everything. You just demanded us to work together but both of Lantana and you just made audist comments about deaf people. Oh ok... Whatever!
ReplyDeleteLANTANA: You made a poor judgment by calling us whiners. Please don't remind me about you being elder. This is America where we don't give a damn about age. Being elder doesn't mean that they know better than young people. I have many friends who are younger than me but I don't remind them or tell them that I am older and I know more than them. I learn a lot from them and they learn from me as well. It is about respect and equality.
Kay
Kay,
ReplyDeleteWhere did I say the deaf are stupid? Where did I generalize the deaf people? If you read closely, you'll realize that I'm talking about the attitude by my generation and the younger generations. Nowhere did I mention the deaf. Just in general.
Kay, if you think the consumers always are friendly when they want to ask for something. You are in for a big surprise.
You don't know me. Nor do you know Lantana. Please point out where I made the comment that would be considered audist. Keep in mind that I didn't refer to the "deaf" people. Just people in general.
Claiming that Lantana has done nothing for the deaf community is an insult. For god's sake, she started up a deaf club in her town years ago. She worked at a school for the deaf for several decades.
She don't hate children just for being talked back to. She just don't appreciated being talked back to. In the old days, children would get disciplined for talking back to the parents. Today, children are barely being disciplined. Do I really have to remind you that it's considered bad manner for a child to challenge an adult's authority? Always has been and always will be.
Kay said,
"Being elder doesn't mean that they know better than young people."
Well, that's what my generation like to say because they aren't 50 yet. Then they will do a complete 180 degree once they turn 50. It's always the same old story. Young people tend think they know everything only to say the opposite about the young adults as they get older.
"You just demanded us to work together"
Please point out where I made the demand. I only shared my opinion. There's a difference between expressing an opinion and making a demand. If it was a demand, it would had been pretty obvious. All I'm doing is telling you as it is because it's the cold truth.
I rightfully ask you to make a sincere apology for accusing me of all sort of things. However, I only want the apology if it is sincere.
You attacked me, not my opinion. You also attacked Lantana. Being called an audist is no different from being called a racist and I am not an audist. If you knew me personally, that word would be the last thing on your mind. In fact, I identify myself as a Deaf person. I am fluent in both English and ASL.
I'll appreciate it if you were to be cautious of making accusations toward me. I would strongly suggest that you avoid hurling any names toward me because I certainly don't want to extend this situation any longer with you because all it'll do is cause you some grief if you make more erroneous assumptions about my character.
"It's all about working together" is not a demand. It's an advice.
I smiled at your posting... yeah, every generation has it differently... depending on the resources that each generation happens to have. Your generation made the best of it, my 1970/1980 generation made the best of it we had, and my children's 2000 generation is learning to utilize the resource that they are presented with. My grandmother when she was alive complained that we drove too much, being lazy, etc. We might complain about our grandchildren in the future ;o).
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I agree with BEG... thanks to activists, we have things easier now. Each geneation produces activists who will do hard work to make sure things will be attainable for the future generation... Hey, you live in Hawaii, and that is inspiring... that we could live anywhere, even on a beautiful island! So you are an activist in your right ;o).
Karen Mayes, I agree with you. Though I do have some concerns about my generation because of the declining education in North America and it's not getting any better. I do believe my concerns are perfectly legible because many people my age are street smart but when it come to academic education, a whole different story.
ReplyDeleteThe "lazy" part is somewhere true. I read that the average person in America is overweight and Canada isn't too far from reaching that point either. We definitely have an epidemic of heart diseases coming up within a couple decades if we don't change soon. So it's hard to not see what our elders were complaining about.
I do hope for some changes in the system as soon as possible but with how the politics are, it's unlikely. :-/
You came from an older time where deaf people didn't have civil rights. We shouldn't be resigned into being devalued and treated shabbily simply because our ears don't work.
ReplyDeleteAbout being impatient, I don't think that's the case, seeing that Section 504 was set up in 1973 ADA 1990. The last time I heard, ignorance isn't a good reason especially decades later. Dang if it is, we can dodge our responsibilities from IRS and evade speeding tickets from the police ;)
On a serious side, frequently organizations do abuse the laws, not due to ignorance, but due to economics. Hospitals do violate the civil rights of deaf patients routinely, out of desire to save money, jeopardizing the lives and health of deaf people. To this day, we still see reports of deaf people being killed and jailed unfairly by the police due to their ignorance of deaf people's rights. They remain deaf to our attempts to educate them of their legal responsibilities under the laws. In these cases, lawsuits are necessary to force them to comply with the laws.
What's wrong with us wanting to be treated equally as our hearing peers?
Americans can take comfort from a recent European survey, whicg stated by far the biggest whiners and whingers, are the British, problem is they aren't whining about access or the lack of rights !
ReplyDelete"Yeah, I am of a different generation, a very much older generation, but WE did not "expect" anything."
ReplyDeleteI must respectfully disagree with you for using “WE” because so many deaf people in your generation fought for our rights. I have deaf grandaunt and granduncle. They shared with me about their experiences. They said that they were happy to be alive in order to see how much it evolved in deaf community. Deaf people in their generation had fought for our rights and have passed on young deaf people.
I agree with BEG and Karen about thanking to all wonderful activists who fight for our rights for women, deaf people, color of people, and many more.
I can understand why your statement turned off some people. I wasn't smiling when I read your comment. You made so many degrading comments on other blogs that are targeted to Deaf proactivists.
Firstly, you complained in your blog about deaf gathering together on the cruiser. You refused to go because you felt that if you were there then you would expect that deaf people cause a problem and ruin your vacation. I think it is very offending comment. I met so many deaf people who were on cruiser among other deaf people; they said they had a blast time. Even my friend met someone on the cruiser and married him.
What’s more hearing people jumped out of the cruiser and never noticed until end of the cruiser.
Why are you continuing to sabotage deaf community as a problematic? It is just because we believe that it is ok for us to stand up and speak up.
Gwen
Are you saying that we shouldn't take for granted what we have now and appreciate what we have more? Trying to read between the lines here.
ReplyDeleteIf that is so, yes, I would agree. I also agree with BEG and others about being grateful to the activists who made these possible for us today. We shouldn't take for granted what they did for us.
You're fine with some "tidbits"...ok, you are limited to getting 15 minutes of closed-captioned TV once a day. The remaining TV time is with the closed-captions turned off. ;)
ReplyDeleteI enjoy your blog but had to say the above.
This is what people mean about negative commenters! Oh my GOSH. Latana is sharing her perspective and getting lambasted for it. She's not saying that deaf people don't have rights, or shouldn't have rights, she is saying that everyone should be reasonable. DeafRead is a place to vent frustration, but there has been a lot of that, and not a lot of the positive. That's all she is saying, and she IS older, and IS wiser. Have some respect people!
ReplyDeleteLantana's message begins with "Seems like..." It isn't a "fact". Just express her thoughts.
ReplyDeleteShe is entitled to her opinion whether you like it or not.
She lives in a different generation. I do live on different one as I see my children being fortune to have these today's & future advanced technology.
She can call the Deaf whiners but I am gratefully thankful the whiners who set us for a better life as the deaf people. They fought for our rights such as allowing us to drive, vote, better education, work, and etc, etc. Not for them, I wouldn't be using this blog/vlog!
I sympathize Lantana for being frustrated because she doesn't live the same style as younger children.
I guess I need to clarify a few things. Thanks to all that wrote in, I appreciate it. To quote Ogden Nash, "we are all human under our pelts".
ReplyDeleteNo one has fought harder to make the ADA Law work than I have. In fact, my hearing peers often get a little embarassed over my insistence that it be followed. I have even sent young waitresses packing in restaurants because their tongues were pierced and I could understand nothing they said! A pierced tongue is not making the restaurant "handicapped accessible" for the deaf!
What I was trying to say in my blogpost just be thankful you have what you have. We deafies have come a long ways and I never dreamed that someday I would have closed captioning, etc. When I use the Relay Service, I still feel amazed. I thank my lucky stars every day.
I feel that MY generation were the pioneers and that we are stronger for suffering as we did, even tho we did not consider it suffering at the time.
MAINSTREAM SCHOOL? I beg your pardon. I actually have quite a few of my former students that post vlogs and blogs, some of which have been shown on DeafRead, ask them where I worked for 25 years and if I contributed anything to their well being. I feel that I have left a very warm legacy. I have no regrets over my choice of employment. I loved every minute of it and went through more than one generation.
We do not "live" in Hawaii, we go there for a month each year. We own a timeshare on the island of Maui. That is because my husband long ago believed in investments. We have both worked hard for where we are today.
Again, many thanks to all who wrote in. In future posts, I will be more clear as to my intentions and perhaps will not step on as many toes.
Lantana
Eloquently put, Latana.
ReplyDeleteNo worries about stepping on toes--if you are open to learning, experience, life and cultures. Stepping on toes is inevitable...
I've said this to one of my friends a while ago: "I'll be willing to forgive only if you're willing to learn."
You are right though about the attitude--Banjo nailed it beautifully as well.
We're a bunch of spoiled brats, yes we are. Oh yes. Come to think of it, being spoiled is a luxury--wanting more is always natural, especially when it comes to younger children
after years and years of negative reinforcements, with american attitudes handed down on us from--
the older generation.
Latana, before you blast our generation with things--how about looking at it this way: This generation is the product of the last generation and their thinking. Our ideas, our standards and all are influced by the generation we looked up to..
If the result of the last generation is this--spoiled brats who want more!
What does that say about your generation? Your lot churned out our lot--Is it really our fault that we're spoiled to the point where we think it's a right not a priviledge?
der sankt
I second what Banjo, BEG and Ben said. It's all about the attitude, and how we approach the hearing world. Yes, we should be thankful that we have the rights and that we should be advocating for ourselves. Yet, we should approach the hearing world with dignity and respect.
ReplyDeleteThat's my two cents - take it for what it's worth. ;)
moxie_mocha
Wow, I am pretty embarrassed to read the posts. She has her own express about her experience. I hate someone to say to a hotel manger with a fuzzy complain about the closed caption. It is not a big deal to stay in a hotel just for one or two days. It is not healthy for anyone to push over the line to demand their needs.
ReplyDeleteThe truth that the ADA law is not always work for many deaf people. We all need to be happy and enjoy ourselves. Lantana went thru many years and things are changed that we may not aware of as we get older. Indeed, that we have made some successful to break some walls for our freedom such TTYs, relay services, interpreters, VP, and some others.
I am concerned that some deaf people cross the line too far that make hearing people think that we are bad ones. Many hearing people ignored handicapped people until they became handicapped. That would make a big difference, and they are whinners. Isn't that make sense to you?
We really teach ourselves to be nice to people both in a hearing world and a deaf world. For instance, I speak with a hotel manager, and ask him/her if he/she could help me with the closed caption problem. I am certainly sure that they will help you with that. If not, then just forget it. It's not worth to get into argument.
That doesn't sound like Ben Voss. I met him at the Gally protest. Trust me, he thinks the world evolves around him.
ReplyDeletelol, get my name right.
ReplyDeleteThis little error on your part shows that you don't know me.
You're sounding a bit more stupider, now eh?
My name is Ben Vess. Get that right.
Of course, I think the world r"evolves" around me--lol, that is my right. You can disagree, I wouldn't care.
That's one of my characteristics, I guess. I can't please everybody but I do know one thing--I can please myself.
Der Sankt
My my my... Such anger and accusations here.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Lantana's attitude, "Be humble, expect nothing." There is a time and a place to stand up for what you believe in. Pick your battles. Are you going to get upset over lack of captioning in a hotel room, or lack of interpreting services at a conference? I would pick the latter.
Our parents' generation did a lot for us, fighting for ADA and such, and this generation is doing a lot for the next, with the relay services and VP and Vlogs. The next generation may come up with something even more wonderful. But again, CHOOSE your battles. Figure out what is more important to you and fight for that.
Sometimes you simply have to make do. How are you supposed to force a tiny town establishment with no resources to provide an interpreter or get a tty for you? Sometimes it happens, and if you forget how to "make do" then you have forgotten how to survive.
You'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. In other words, be kind and more will come to you. Be sharp-tongued and people will resist.
Great post Lantana! It was thought provoking, even if you stepped on quite a few angry toes!
Once again I am here to thank everyone who took notice of my post, "Variety is the spice of life". I guess no one caught the title and wondered about that.
ReplyDeleteErick: Yes, my husband
drives a Corvette. Actually he has 2 (two) of them. He also has a 1972 Dodge Power Wagon PU truck that is in cherry condition. And a Kubota tractor, and a Ford 350 pickup. Like most men, he enjoys his toys (and they are all paid for!) And what, pray tell, is wrong with having a garden?
BEN VESS: This young man has been a perfect gentleman to me, even when I sense that he believes I am mistaken, he still oozes CLASS. Thanks, Ben. You have what it takes.
Jessica, Jenny, Moxie, Banjo, Judge, etc, You are poster children on how issues should be posted in a forum, etc. ' Name calling, guessing one's life expectancy, criticizing a person's lifestyle etc. is not.
"Don't look forward to the day when you stop suffering, because when it comes you'll know you are dead"
Tennessee Williams
Aww, latana, your comments made me day! MwAhs!
ReplyDeleteBen